the american people are not going have any patience for a politically self-inflicted wound

to our economy. not right now. >> coming up, who do americans blame for the stalemate in washington? good afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. this hour we are going look at the big picture. what's happening on capitol hill right now and how congressional leaders are working with the white house. plus, what it all means for your paycheck as higher payroll taxes are only days away unless congress acts. one step forward, two steps back. president obama and republican lawmakers have been dancing that waltz for six weeks now, but the music stops when the countdown clock at the bottom of your screen runs out. so where do fiscal cliff talks stand at this critical hour? nbc's kristen welker is on the north lawn and luke russert are both following developments this saturday afternoon. kristen, i'll start with you. any indication at this particular point as to what's happening behind closed doors this afternoon?

>> reporter: well, i think most of the action is going on in the hill where staffers with majority leader reid and minority leader mcconnell are trying to conjure up some last-minute deal and this plan would not be the grand bargain that john boehner started initially working on. that plan would have dealt with tax reform and deficit reduction and this will be a much more scaled back version that will deal with the issue of taxes and that is still the big sticking point, taxes. of course, democrats and president obama have called for tax rates to increase on those making $250,000 or less. republicans have said that's way too low. so they're thinking about potentially compromising on a rate that would be $400,000 or $500,000, but some republicans are saying they don't think that the tax rate should go up on anyone. so taxes still the major sticking point. right now the negotiations are going on the hill and there's a lot of optimism that came from the talks yesterday.

of course, president obama hosted congressional leaders at the white house and they left that meeting and many said that it was constructive and they were optimistic that a deal could get done and i've been talking to my sources today and that same optimism isn't really present right now. there's more skepticism about a deal getting done and it is still very early in this process and this is a fluid situation so it could change on a dime, but that's what's going on behind the scenes and the white house monitoring clearly, what's happening. >> what's the president doing today? >> reporter: well, he doesn't have any events on his public schedule and he does have an industry with david gregory from "meet the press." other than that, we don't have a readout of what's happening and we're hoping to get more information as the day wears on about what, specifically, he's done and how he's been engaged in these talks, but right now my sources at the white house are not reading out any of the discussions that may or may not have happened behind the scenes

here. >> kristen welker, appreciate that. the senate reconvenes and we do know talks in the works on the hill and nbc's luke russert filling us in now on what you know to be happening at this hour. what say you, good sir? >> hey, how are you doing, craig? talks are under way on capitol hill. we know mitch mcconnell is here. we assume harry reid is here and their staffs are going back and forth. i spoke to one aide who said don't expect for any details to leak tonight. they'll be closed-lipped about this because the idea if anything does leak out it gives more of an opportunity for folks on either party to kill a deal if they don't like what they hear. some sort of a agreement will be announced tomorrow when the house is back in session and the senate is back in session and they can go back to say hey, this is the best opportunity. as far as the likelihood of this

kraig, things have not been going well and there's optimism here and there and things are fluid like kristen says and it will be the final deal, but what we do know is these folks on capitol hill are very mindful of the damage that can be done to the economy if nothing is brief. we've had five down days in the stock market and we're preparing the country on tuesday for the first tax increase in 20 years, and i think finally at the end, that's starting to resonate at least with some of the elder members of both sides hence why we're even here on a saturday andence had, why we're even here on a sunday and obviously there is the optics and it does look good and this is a lot of effort to do over nothing. >> you know the two major players now, senate majority leader harry reid and senate minority leader mitch mcconnell and how might those things shape the contours of any type of

agreement? >> it's funny, mcconnell and reid say they're good friends and they talk daily and there's truth to that and they go against each other on the senate floor and if this was crafting a deal to get through the senate and i think they could do it in 20 minutes. the issue here is you have to have a deal that could be acceptable to the house republicans, and anything that is acceptable to the house republicans is a lot harder for harry reid to stomach and harder for nancy police toe stomach and the president. so their personalities and they've been here a long time and understand one another. there is a certain level of trust there between them, so if it was just them having to do it for the senate, i have no doubt they can get it done it's what can you do in the senate that the house will accept and it's a lot tougher road. >> luke russert, thanks, sir. >> take care. president obama is, quote, modestly optimistic that congress can pass a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, but is that optimism

justified even if the senate can can come together and craft a deal? a very big if at this point and what are the chances that house speaker john boehner can get members of his congress to go along with the deal. joining me now perry bacon and lynn sweet. i want to start with you because i read something that you wrote an article recently in which you said basically that the rumors of the tea party's demise have been greatly exaggerated noting their key role in refusing to go along with john boehner's tax plan to raise taxes on those making more than $1 million a year. the fiscal cliff debate has illustrated then during influence of the tea party and the power of the conservative party. boehner can't guarantee that his members won't face primary challenges from the right so

there's little surprise they won't follow his lead. >> mcconnell's not going agree to something that all other republicans are opposed to because he's a republican, too, and he has to worry about a primary, potentially, as well. the core of this is a lot of people are asking why won't house republicans compromise? the reason is a lot of their districts are highly conservative districts and biggest danger of not being re-elect side a conservative challenger ran against them saying hey, you supported a tax increase and you supported something president obama liked and that's what they have to think about each day they go to work and that's why they don't compromise on things they should compromise on. >> lynn, you said you're want optimistic about a deal being struck. do you still feel that way? >> oh, i think i would put the optimism meter up a notch or two just because people are working on there, and the more you look at the limited number of hours left, you actually probably can buy a little more time because

for practical matter, the markets are go -- i believe are closing early on monday or at least there's not a lot of trading and if you need more time to let the ink dry on a stopgap measure and if people work on new year's day and the real deadline is noon january 3rd on thursday when this congress expires and these members and you have to swear in the new congress. >> so i even see a little more leeway, if it's just a matter to get the paperwork in order, but it is just don't underestimate the difficulty of getting into the house that has been stamped acceptable. the dare that obama put out yesterday to the republicans. >> up or down. >> yes. and if you have time i can explain why people may think that is the routine in washington, and it's not. >> take your time. take the time to explain it for

us. >> okay. i'd like to do that for everyone out there. you may have learned in school that bills introduced and it goes through regular order and it gets a vote. that's just not how it's done here and there are all kind of rules actually designed to let the party in power have the ability to call what goes on before it. a reason that this is going to start in the senate tomorrow is that the democrats control the senate. so what obama is saying, if harry reid and mcconnell do not get a deal, well, that means that a deal would signify that it is filibuster proof. they'd have a super majority. democrats have the majority so you would think why don't they just vote together, pass it and move on to the house, but the dare is that obama's saying do you really want to show to all of america, republican senators that you're going filibuster a bill and everybody's taxes will go up? how do you explain that when there are -- when there is a

majority around who can fas? that's a pretty interesting dare that obama put out there. >> thank you, it's like a little school house rock on saturday afternoon here on msnbc. perry, if mitch mcconnell does make a deal, how does he sell that deal in kentucky and the reddest of red states, mind you? >> i think he can and the reason is, like i said, i think any deal he signs on to will be a deal 100, 120 house republicans will sign to. he's not going sign a deal by himself and he'll sign a deal that's acceptable to some conservatives and mitch mock connell has a huge amount of campaign funds are raised. this is the man who famously said his big goal president obama wouldn't make the second term and his credentials are pretty strong in that state which i'm from so i have familiarity with it. >> i know how much you love the state. >> thanks to both of you and i look forward to seeing you again

later in the hour. >> thank you. >> believe it or not, congress is actually -- they actually did something this week and it's something that will be most welcome by victims of hurricane sandy. we'll talk about the relief package. countdown clock continues to tick away, the debt ceiling approaching. lawmakers trying to hash out a deal and we'll take you back to d.c. for the very latest on what's going on behind the scenes. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. we were so blessed when we had triplets if by blessed you mean freaked out about money well we suddenly noticed that everything was getting more expensive so we switched to the bargain detergent but i found myself using three times more than you're supposed to and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. thanks honey yeah you suck at folding [ laughs ] [ female announcer ] one cap of tide

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a showdown that's felt like watching a game of hot potato. senate leaders harry reid and

mitch mcconnell are able to get their proposals past and they've left the senate to build a compromise plan and as you can see, the clock continues to tick, tick, tick, time running out. editor mark murray live in d.c. once again and mark, we should know here that the sky won't actually fall if the deal isn't passed by tuesday, but for a moment here, let's talk about the worst-case scenario. americans earning up to their 20,000 a year and they'll see their taxes go up about $412. next bracket could pay $1,000 extra to uncle sam. people making 40 to $65,000 get a $2,000 tax hike and anyone, would see a $14,000 tax bump. where else would americans see the sting? talk to me about medicare and unemployment benefits. >> this whole metaphor we've been using about a fiscal cliff

probably isn't the right one to be used. after all, if you go over a cliff, you usually don't get to live to tell about it unless you're batman or spider-man, but there are things that actually would happen right away and one of those things that would be right away in a negative impact would be unemployment benefits and 2 million americans would see the unemployment benefits and that would hurt the economy and that would hurt these people that are relying on this and the unemployment insurance has been seen as economic stimulus to get hands into the money of people who need it and they were things that actually get spread over the course of 2013 if there is no fix that is actually done and it is possible for congress to go back and fix things and talking about the increase of tax rates and there will also be spending cuts to government programs as well as the military and that will be spread over with 2013 and the world doesn't come to an end if we go over this quote, unquote, fiscal

cliff and instead, a lot of the damage gets spread out and congress does have the power to go back and fix things. >> is it more important that the payroll tax holiday will go away and that is another thing that will end up happening. >> the payroll tax holiday will be a temporary sting, and it was crafted in 2010 and that is right in the waning days of the 111th congress when they still held in control the house of representatives and all of the counter proposals and counter proposals, and house speaker john boehner and the offers we have on the table don't deal with the payroll tax holiday and they go up to people on the amount of money they put in the social security trust fund and that is your payroll tax and those will go up and pretty much regardless if we get a deal or we don't. >> mark murray from d.c., breaking it down for us and the senior editor, thank you, sir. >> as lawmakers in d.c. struggle

to reach a deal to avert the fiscal cliff, for a larger deal along the lines laid out by the simpson bowls commission is a part of the past that is a disappointment, the key architect of the fix the debt campaign and maya mcginnis. thanks for being with me on this saturday, maya. >> thank you. >> am i right in suggesting that even if a deal is fixed it would be far too small for your liking. >> you are right. the immediate pressing task is to not hurl the country over the fiscal cliff and i disagree it wouldn't be a problem if we went over it, and i worry that the ramifications of going over the cliff could be quite severe, not just that tax increases would be put in place because realistically at some point zee to come to terms with the fact we need to raise revenues and we'll have to raise taxes in one way or another and the point is that the fiscal cliff is a way

that we would put a ton of economic damage in the economy and a lot of uncertainty about whether washington can govern. but just as important or using that fiscal cliff and not going over it and using that moment to put that bigger debt deal that you were talking about into place and it seems that policymakers who all know we need to do it with both the spending, and just unwilling to make the hard choices and that will be another december and if we have some kind of bipartisan punt that makes the situation worse, not better and citizens across the country and they shouldn't expect this, and in the long run. >> and it has not been able to come under -- this is what he wrote of you, in part, quote, she, like pretty much all of the

deficits go, actually empowers hyperpartisanship by always condemning both sides equally no matter who is, and in practice, these days that almost always means making excuses for hard liners and the gop. are you an excusemaker? >> listen, anybody who is a member of congress was elected and sent there. that means that they reflect the voters and they have to work together to come up with a compromise. when i think the platform that paul has it's an amazing platform in "the new york times" where he could be doing is laying out all sorts of proposals for how to fix the short-term problems of jobs and the economy which he focuses on and the long-term problems of the debt and he takes shot at people like me because i'm a political independent. instead of saying -- let me just finish. instead of pointing fingers and instead of pointing fingers, i

really think we need to have republicans and democrats work together and compromise on this. we all agree with that, maya mcginnis. i think it is worth noting that the gop has 115 times, 115 times the republican minority has held up a bill's passage or they've threatened to filibuster. 115 times, that is unprecedented, is it not? >> so you're talking about filibusters. you're talking about the way that washington is actually not able to get anything done anymore and that's a tremendous problem. i'm talking about the fiscal challenges facing the country and the fact that all parts of the budget will have to be addressed. spending and entitlements and revenues and things that both republicans and democrats are not eager to do because let's face it, they're really hard and one of the best ways that we'll get a debt deal done is the political cover of the parties working together. so do i think that there has to be bipartisanship to actually forge this kind of compromise and a big debt deal?

i absolutely do, and i also think that citizens want policymakers to work together. you don't see any other industry where people are set up to fight with each other while solving hard problems. it just doesn't work, so i think compromise is necessary here. >> how big of a problem is the fact that a lot of folks making these decisions right now are in districts where they really don't have to worry about being beaten. how -- how much of a consideration should the gerryhandering happening in the country over the past 20 years, how much should we be talking about that? >> i think we should be talking about that a lot and as much of the focus has to be on budget reforms a s ans and fixing the . the political reforms are contributing to the hyperpartisanship which we're seeing and the huge divides and when you talk to people across the country, they want people to come to washington and work together and solve problems, and i do think that the way that we do the redistricting is a huge problem in this country.

political reforms will have to be part of the broader fixes that are going help us. this isn't the only big issue that will be hard that policymakers have to work on. they'll have to learn to work together. >> maya mcginnis, fix the debt campaign. thank you for being with me on this saturday. >> the idea of buying illegal guns to get them off the streets might seem a little crazy, but many local communities are finding that buying guns back works. we'll talk to one connecticut mayor who is running one as we speak. you are watching msnbc. [ laughter ] smoke? nah, i'm good. ♪ [ male announcer ] every time you say no to a cigarette, you celebrate a little win. nicoderm cq, the patch with time release smart control technology that acts fast and helps control cravings all day long. ♪ quit one day at a time with nicoderm cq.

three days to go before the nation goes off the fiscal cliff and congressional leaders behind closed doors, both chambers could vote on before then, but who blinks first in these negotiations may have something to do with poll numbers. the latest survey conducted by reute

reuters ipso shows the latest negotiations and 27% of americans fault the republicans. 16% blame president obama. just 6% are blaming democrats. according to the same poll 23% blame republicans in congress for the national unemployment number. 16% blame the president. 7% blame democrats and the national unemployment rate right now as of november stands at 7.7%. still to come, what does the failure of speaker boehner come to get his plan b passed to gop mean for his speakership. more ahead in the war room with that, plus old man winter making a big mess around the northeast today. we'll get the latest on what that means for your travel plans. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics, and on this particular saturday the place for snow, as well. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon...

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for their annual football trip. that's double miles you can actually use. tragically, their buddy got sacked by blackouts. but it's our tradition! that's roughing the card holder. but with the capital one venture card you get double miles you can actually use. [ cheering ] any flight, anytime. the scoreboard doesn't lie. what's in your wallet? hut! i have me on my fantasy team. good is the.

i'm craig melvin. here's a look at top stories. new information made into the arrest of the deadly subway pushing accident. the nypd says they have a person of interest in custody. she's a 31-year-old woman who may be homeless and she may also be emotionally disturbed, we are told. thousands in india are protesting after the victim of a brutal gang rape in new delhi died at the hospital. the indian prime minister is calling for calm and he is also pledging to consider tougher penalties for sex crimes in that country. six men arrested in connection with the rape have now been charged with murder. >> and the u.s. senate has approved a $60.4 billion aid package to pay for damage done by hurricane sandy. it's now up to the house to approve that bill before the current session ends on wednesday, otherwise, it will have to be re-introduced next congress. now to the relentless winter weather dumping snow all over the northeast.

a new storm today already making roads treacherous in pennsylvania and new york with new england looking to get the worst of it later tonight. airlines so far have canceled more than 300 flights, many in and out of the new york city area. weather channel's julie martin standing by at laguardia. what's the seen now, julie? >> reporter: craig, in fact, half of those cancellations have come from the new york airports and 180, jfk, laguardia and newark as of this hour. in terms of the delays we are not seeing them mount as much as we would have thought at this time and one of the reasons that snow not quite working its way into the tri-state area just yet, but we are, nonetheless, seeing low ceilings and visibility issues and certainly wet runways as a result of the storm which will continue to crank along throughout the afternoon and the evening before winding down overnight into tomorrow and really impacting cities like boston which could pick up a foot. i would expect to see major

delays for you. here in new york, we are anticipating those delays to continue to climb throughout the evening. one of the good things with this storm, versus the storm earlier this week is the winds are lighter with this so it won't be as much of an aviation problem. nonetheless, if you are traveling you will want to check ahead because we are anticipating anywhere from one to three inches of snow hitting the new york metro area by this evening. >> i remember when i was little and snow was fun. >> reporter: yeah. not when you're traveling, right? >> exactly. >> former president george h.w. bush said to be in high spirits this afternoon despite having to spend christmas and now possibly new year's in the hospital. gabe gutierrez standing by in houston. gabe, what can you tell us? >> hi there, craig. the former president remains in intensive care at methodist hospital. he's been here more than a month and the family spokesman says he is improving and that his interactions with the medical staff include singing. there is no word on what exactly

he's singing, of course, but the former president first went to the hospital in early november with bronxitis a ibronchitis and after developing a nagging cough and the family hoped to have him home by christmas and that didn't happen, and he developed a fever and so doctors put him in the icu and they were reluctant to get details about his treatment and this thursday his chief of staff sent an e-mail to supporters telling people to put the harps back in the closet. the former president is in very high spirits although he's not expected to leave this hospital any time soon. his family, right now, says he's in guarded condition and they are cautiously optimistic about his recovery, craig. >> gabe gutierrez from houston, thank you, sir. >> let's turn back to wash wish and the fiscal cliff drama. most americans could see a rise in taxes and government spending cuts if government does not reach a deal before year's end,

and i want to bring in two capitol hill veterans, budget committee member as well, martin frost of texas and david winston, he was aide to newt gingrich and adviser to newt gingrich's 2012 presidential campaign. i want to pick up where we left off last hour. gentlemen, you were making a point. my question is what happened to those talks between the president and john boehner. at one point they were 400 million apart and it was one whole heck of a lot of money and what happened? i think what happened is that the president decided that he was going to up the number from 800 to $1.2 trillion worth of revenue that he wanted. >> that took speaker boehner to the point where he didn't think they would go through the house and things began to fall apart at that point and they ended up going with this commission and i think it was frustrating to both

men. my sense is they know the speaker was trying to get there and my sense from talking to the speaker's staff that the president wanted to get there. this came up and it caused them to fall apart. >> is that how you understand it it went down? >> i'm not sure and i'm not sure it will end at some time. they didn't reach agreement and mitch mcconnell had arrived in the senate and cook up a deal which would put this out for 18 months, once again, mitch mcconnell has to ride to the rescue. it's a very interesting situation. i'm a democrat, but i have a high regard for mitch mcconnell. he's an acquired taste. frankly, i wish we had a few more dealmakers around and people like dan rostenkowsky and the late jack brooks when he was chairman of the judiciary committee. we need a few more people like

that who know how to get thins done. unfortunately, we're in short supply right now. >> david, is john boehner's role -- has his role been diminished? >> no. i mean, look, what you have is a situation, i think what's clearly occurred here has been the house passed bills in terms of being able to avert this fiscal cliff, the senate has had difficulty in managing those bills and as a result of that harry reid ended up passing a completely different bill rather than taking up what could have been to get us into the traditional process and then they get to the congress where they get to negotiate and for some reason i don't understand why reid didn't pick up the two bills and simply pass them and amend them the way we wanted so we can get the congress. i'm sort of befuddled by that. >> that's a good point. jonathan allen raised an interesting point and it speaks to what you just said as well, david. this is from politico yesterday.

a cliff dive means blaming president obama for a big dive in the short term. jonathan allen goes on to say ooh an easier sell to constituents than a pre-cliff deal. are there members holding out to gain political ground back home, marte in? >> i don't think so. i think think that's an awfully cynical view and there are pressures on members that some of your other guests have talked about, some of the tea party members who feel like they might get a primary against them or they might not be able to be reelected if they went down this road. here's the problem. if i understand correctly what happened recently, there are 190 republicans who are ready to vote for plan b. there are 50 republicans who will vote no in the republican conference and so boehner said because he being aren't get 218 votes he would let the 50 who would vote no overrule the 190 who would vote yes. that's an enormous problem from

the way government operates and what should have happened is there should have been some compromise and efforts to compromise between boehner and the democrats and i think if they would have settled on a figure of $500,000 for when the tax rids would go up and they might have been able to attract enough democratic votes so that the 50 tea party members who were dead set against this would have been outvoted by a bipartisan coalition, but the speaker refused to do that. he refused to put together a deal that could attract the democratic votes and let the 50 hard liners overrule 190 people in his own caucus. that's a very unfortunate situation. >> he's talking about the so-called hastert rule there. >> that's not the hastert rule. it was the majority. >> that's true. >> that's not the hastert rule, at all. >> know where you were going to with the majority and the majority. the numbers are wrong. he had closer to 90% of his caucus aligned there, with 20,

25 members that were unclear, but he had the overwhelming, over 90% -- >> he didn't have 218. >> agreed. that's because none of the democrats were going to join. >> that's an unreasonable standard. >> he's not negotiating with nancy pelosi. he's negotiating with the president of the united states trying to work this deal out and certainly it's become a discussion with nancy pelosi and it's not, it's a discussion with the president of the united states in term of trying to work this through and where does he have to turn? he has to turn back to the principles in this negotiation and that's what he's done. >> but i believe he could have passed his plan b if he hadn't gone with the $20 million cutoff and he'd moved toward the center and that had been under discussion with a $400,000 cut off or a $500,000 cut off for the tax cuts to go into effect and the tax increases above that figure to go into effect and he didn't try to go into the center and he locked himself into an

impossible situation where he couldn't get 218 votes in his own caucus and that was a failure of leadership. >> martin frost, david winston, ten seconds. you have ten seconds to respond. >> i'm sorry, but you're asking him to take the democratic position when he's a republican and he made a significant concession when willing to talk about tax rates and that was a significant step. >> i can see the disgust on frost's face, but continue the conversation on twitter. appreciate your time. >> pleasure. >> up next, getting guns off the streets. what one town is doing today to get gun owners to give up their weapons. you're watching msnbc. new years clutter is no match for someone with big ideas. with a new project in mind, some how-to knowledge to give us an edge, and more savings down every aisle. it only takes a few twists and turns for those bright ideas

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fear fighters. as an ex-con he would not have been able to buy the guns himself. officials say dawn wynn lied on a form saying she'd be the gun owner. she told the court the weapons were stolen from her. that story and of course, the newtown school shooting has drawn a lot of attention to gun control laws in this country as lawmakers and lobbyists debate solutions and some are taking actions themselves. the big idea today, gun buybacks. in new haven, connecticut, towns offering cash or gift cards for anyone handling a gun. and a city an hour from newtown, connecticut, a buyback program happening right now is no-doubt personal. joining me live now on the telephone is bridgeport mayor bill finch. mayor, good to have you. we have you on the phone because the skype connection wouldn't

have been great. >> it's good to be here. we worked so hard, but the technology doesn't always work with you. >> is the gun buyback program drawing a big response? >>s yes, we raised over $100,000 in food coupons from the local grocer and we've had over 300 guns sold back to the city, spent a little over 30,000 in -- you know, i think people are happy to do it. we're only 20 miles from the school and it hit everybody pretty hard. >> gun buyers seem to be back out there getting those guns ever since newtown, talk of new gun laws and gun sales are through the roof in virginia. dealers requested more than 5,000 background checks on purchases. this is eight days after the shooting, we should note. the largest single-day request

in virginia and maryland. police projecting they'll get 82 gun permit applications this month alone. are you at all concerned that the gun buyback program isn't making a dent? >> we do believe it's making a dent. we can only handle what happens within our boundaries. we're a local government and we hope the state and federal government step up and make it more difficult for people to purchase especially repeating weapon, assault weapons and large magazine clips. mayor bloomberg have joined their group, mayors against illegal guns and mayor distephan on in new haven, but we need the federal government to step up and we encourage residents not to purchase weapons and we certainly support the people's second amendment, but it's getting so the second amendment has more weight than the other amendments put together and that's just wrong. >> i would imagine that there in

bridgeport, and i live in westport, and i would imagine that in your town that the perception, at least, or the attitude toward guns has changed in the wake of what happened there, is that true? >> you know, i've been to two of the three days of the buyback and the attitude of the people has dramatically changed. people have had guns around their home who are turning them in and one retired woman said to me that she's lived alone for quite a while, but she thought it would be a good idea after what happened in newtown to get rid of it so if her house ever was burglarized it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands. ironically, the first weapon we took in was the same weapon that was used in newtown. i was the state senator who voted for the assault ban and there are loopholes in that ban. if we look at the stop and frisk and the handgun legislation in new york, their murders and

their gun violence is at an all-time low. our police want to do more and sometimes we just need the federal government to get out of our way and help us rather than be in the pocket of the nra. you know, and i just want to say when i was a state senator i pushed very hard for sunday hunting. i support hunters. hunters need to know that this is all we want. we just want the assault weapon ban, the ban of the magazines with large clips and we want better handgun registration and we want to eliminate these loopholes that terrorists and mental patients can get guns. these gun shows, 40% of the guns are bought at gun shows. >> mayor finch, how many guns have you got today? >> over 300 for the first three days and about a hundred every day so far that we've been doing it is our average and we still need donors to donate so the average. we need donors to donate so we can have more money to buy more guns and we need people to turn

in weapons. every saturday we will be doing ilt. >> do you destroy the guns? >> we will be making the guns to jewelry and then sell that to get more money, and then we will bury some of the guns to demonstrate our effort to make the streets safer. >> mayor finch, thank you for your time. >> thank you, craig. >> senator majority leader mitch mccouncil, we will talk about. [ clock ticking ] [ male announcer ] there's a better way... v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8. or...try kids boxes!

>> we are in talks between house speaker john boehner and president obama failing to result in a deal, all hope is resting in the senate, particularly with that man, mitch mcconnell, he is on the hill meeting with his democratic counter party, harry reed, a year ago, he was instrumental in

extending the payroll tax cut. can he do it again? we have our guests here. let me start with you, mcconnell, he that is a history of deal making what about this time? >> the key factor to remember, 2008, right before mcconnell had a re-election campaign, he helped to negotiate tarp, and that was untop lar everywhere and in kentucky, but he was able to win despite that, so the question is how much does it change in 2014? what kind of deal can you negotiate that people in kentucky will support and republicans in the house will support. that's the challenge for him. it looks like what he is trying to do right now is make sure that taxes only go up for people that make over $400,000. he is trying to move the president up from the 250 number. that is the core of the noern negotiations right now. >> the arl says, political

operatives note that mcconnell is up for re-election in 2014. and a "no vote" is better than ha being part of a controversial be deal? >> that true. >> if he says this is the best product we have it's not good enough and i'm voting no, but among the many decisions he has, and this is why he is a very important player right now, his biggest decision is whether or not he is going to threaten the filibuster or he can improve the deal, get the number up for the tax, whatever that number is, 400, 500, if it's just numbers, people can come together on it. it's, you know, so he could still perhaps have a story to tell saying i improved it. i may personally vote no, because i think it should have

been better, but i don't want to lock the process for everybody. >> steve -- >> so he is in a powerful position because it's better for him and everyone if the senate has a unanimous consent as to what should happen. kick it over to the house. >> reed and mcconnell was interviewed side-by-side, it was a rare interview last month. i want to play you about what he said in that interview. and we will get your reaction on the other side. take a listen. >> what was the feeling in that room for you? >> it was very chilly, they did not look at each other once during the course of the interview. >> i thought it would be interesting to see if there was any common ground and we found none. >> we with found none. that doesn't sound like the two men get along very well. >> i don't know that mitch mcconnell has a lot of democratic friend that's pals around with, to be honest with you. so that is not terribly surprising to me. he is is not known as being that

type of member of congress. but there are views on levels like harry and mcconnell has been able to come together before. it's not a mcconnell, reed, it's about the house republicans that have to vote and the president. the core question is, is there a deal out there that the house republicans and the tea party members and president obama can approve of. that is the question as we look forward. >> we should say, that they are both nationals fans. >> i have to cut the conversation short. thank you so much, i do want to let the viewers know that we just got an update, developing news from houston where a bush family spokesman has confirmed that former president george h.

w. bush has been moved from the icu to a regular patient room at the methodist hospital to continue his recovery, the bushes thank everyone for their prayers and good wishes. so again, on the saturday afternoon, 88-year-old former president is out of the hospital, the we will be right back. ♪ announcing the all-new 2013 malibu from chevrolet. ♪ with a remarkable new interior featuring the available chevrolet mylink infotainment system. this is where sophisticated styling begins. and where it ends? that's up to you. it's here -- the greatest malibu ever. ♪ but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene.